I think the last CA/SAD had a part about "reaching out". I knew they didn't have what they considered enough elders, but if the numbers have gone down, then they are really in a pickle. Do you have any idea what they think they can do to reverse the trend? My theory is that the changes in the meetings were an effort to reduce the load on the elders. I think an even bigger problem for them is the elder average age is increasing and the MS pipeline is pretty slim. Most of the MS I know will never make the next step. So, as the older guys slow down and die off, there isn't anyone stepping into their shoes. If the WTS thinks they have problems with not enough elders now, just wait 10 years!
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
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33
Jehovah's Witnesses and their Elders
by AllTimeJeff ini wonder if the governing body (gb) knows the trouble the whole thing started..... to be sure, when the gb put into effect that all congregations of jehovah's witnesses were to have a body of elders that is in existence today, their goal was to meet their own ends.
under a sub heading "gearing up for explosive growth" in their history book "jehovah's witnesses - proclaimers of god's kingdom" they stated..... ***.
jehovahs servants were determined to continue to yield to divine direction.
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Jehovah's Witnesses and their Elders
by AllTimeJeff ini wonder if the governing body (gb) knows the trouble the whole thing started..... to be sure, when the gb put into effect that all congregations of jehovah's witnesses were to have a body of elders that is in existence today, their goal was to meet their own ends.
under a sub heading "gearing up for explosive growth" in their history book "jehovah's witnesses - proclaimers of god's kingdom" they stated..... ***.
jehovahs servants were determined to continue to yield to divine direction.
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Doubting Bro
Good comments ATJ. As with most that have spent any amount of time in JW world, congregations do vary and that is tied directly to the elders. I grew up in a small, close-knit rural congregation that was fairly conservative. Everyone always wore suits in service, things were done just so but the BOE didn't really come down real hard on folks. Then, I moved to an ultra conservative congregation where the PO was personal friends with GB members. The pressure was ramped up on stupid things like your hair couldn't touch your shirt collar and you could only wear white shirts on the platform (or to even handle mikes). The BOE was hard nosed and would come down on you like a ton of bricks if you missteped even slightly. Being the good JW boy who wanted "privileges", I feel right in line. After a few more moves, I finally joined the elder club.
The thing that always bothered me about the whole elder arrangement is the simple fact that their personal tastes and opinions matter much more than anyone elses (unless you count the CO whose opinion matters more than the local elders). I could never reconcile why a 29 year old's opinion on hemlines or hair cuts or sideburns mattered AT ALL, much less to be made law. Yet, that senario plays out again and again. I've got to think that Russell would turn over in his grave if he could see what has happened with his study group.
I started out as being pretty conservative, then as I got more mature, moved to being one of the liberals. Generally, I was the swing vote. Jeff, your theory about the liberals being the ones that drop out the most is true in my experience. Almost every elder that I know that has resigned in the last 5 years or so was either outright liberal or at least liberal leaning. I know a few liberals that have hung in just to "provide balance" as one told me recently.
One question Jeff. Has the actual number of elders worldwide decreased or has the ratio of elders to publishers decreased? In my limited experience, it seems to me the number has held fairly steady while the number of pulishers has increased slightly bring the ratio down. Just curious because I'm sure you probably have a better view that I do.
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Some hard to take news...
by thebiggestlie inmy girlfriend was having a rough time.
she's been vomitting every morning.
her tummy has been aching and she's been feeling off.
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Doubting Bro
(((tbl))) - Sorry to hear your news. Speaking from personal experience, its going to be hard on both of you. Thoughts are with you both.
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LURKING JW: Thinking of leaving? Learn from my experience.
by SnakesInTheTower in"mental wondering in the wilderness"... uh oh.... it's a long post from snakes.... lol.
yep... i think that is the best way to describe where i am at in life right now.
if you have read my past posts (mostly in the private section) you know some of my history as a life-long (now former) witness.. i have been away from the jw religion, for all intents and purposes, since dec. 06, though it was not until sept 07 that i stopped attending meetings.
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Doubting Bro
Snakes,
Great thread. I can understand a bit of what you're going through. Its part of the normal process and while that doesn't make it any easier, at least you know you're not the only one that has those feelings. I too am finishing my degree (just a few more classes to go!!) and we're around the same age. A few years ago when I started realizing that the WTS isn't "Gods channel", I started slowly withdrawing from my JW friends. Like you, I haven't really replaced those folks and turth be told, they really weren't that close. My wife & I have a great relationship and that's really the only thing that has kept me sane. However, I really don't share with her the pain of losing my religion although I have shared my doubts with her. Its really no-mans land but that's road I've chosen to walk.
I'd encourage you to keep "your eyes on the prize" (sorry I couldn't resist). Throw yourself into your school work and continue getting good grades (which I'm sure you're doing). Once you finish, get the hell out of Dodge. I think you said you're looking at what, 6 months? You can do it. Then, you can really start building a life. When you land at your new home, go in with the attitude that you are going to meet and make good friends. Get involved with the community, join a club, go out with coworkers or neighbors. You'll figure it.
The great thing about these discussion boards is that you can vent even if its just reading others posts. Continue using it as a lifeline. I'm available if you ever want to talk.
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"But there are always new ones coming in"
by Farkel inif you've read, seen and heard as many sickening statements uttered by watchtower leaders as i have, you'll probably agree you tend to get jaded by them after a while:.
russell claiming his books were more important than the bible.
rutherford boasting that armageddon coming in 1925 was as certain as the flood of noah and virtually "indisputable.".
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Doubting Bro
I completely agree and really think the statistics driven culture has the most to do with that mind set. People rely on religion for a variety of things but the number 1 reason (at least in my opinion) would be for comfort in times of distress. Yet, at this basic level, the WTS has proven time and time again that they are woefully inadequate. If there really is a God that is concerned with human activity, I would think he wouldn't be very pleased with the WTS.
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I wanted to scream at the Elder Sunday morning "you are a lying !!!!!!"
by TooBad TooSad inmy wife wanted to go visit some friends at another kingdom hall so i tagged along.
to keep her happy.
the elder giving the "public" talk brought up the 1975 myth.. he said, as he looked around the audience, "it looks like there are not a lot of brothers.
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Doubting Bro
I was a very young boy then but I distinctly remember being very afraid that the big A was going to start when I was at school and that I would be separated from my parents.
I think JWs that joined after that time tend to not believe that the WTS was pushing that date hard but even as a little boy, I remember the fear mongering.
What I didn't realize is that the media picked up on the WTS's prediction that the world would end. Those newpaper clippings are the first time I've ever seen that. Great post.
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the high cost of divorcing a JW............
by oompa indivorce is hard for everyone, unless the person is just jumping for joy to get out it.....but even then it can be rough....and you lose half your assets.....some people stay in bad marriages just because they can not afford to be divorced........ but esp if you are a born in jw.....you know what is so unfair compared to normal non-jw divorces????
?....what is so fukkin unfair?!?
!.......that you lose all your friends and family!!!!
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Doubting Bro
about the only "bad" things she does is some sex stuff and likes R rated movies
Hey, that's something! My guess is that she's even more hard core to attempt to offset you, especially with the therapist.
Cooking & travel are good hobbies and something you can build on. If you guys are truly in love, then I'm thinking you'll both find a way to make it work. But, you both have to feel that way or else it won't stand a chance. No easy answers, that's for sure.
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the high cost of divorcing a JW............
by oompa indivorce is hard for everyone, unless the person is just jumping for joy to get out it.....but even then it can be rough....and you lose half your assets.....some people stay in bad marriages just because they can not afford to be divorced........ but esp if you are a born in jw.....you know what is so unfair compared to normal non-jw divorces????
?....what is so fukkin unfair?!?
!.......that you lose all your friends and family!!!!
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Doubting Bro
oompa,
I've read this thread and am sorry you're going through this. I'm sure it must be very difficult. A few observations:
1 - Seems like you think you're wife is a great person, but your marriage lacks the chemistry you are looking for. Did it ever have that "spark"? If so, then there's a chance you can get it back. I seem to remember you posting about going to counseling. Is that working for you at all?
2 - You obviously don't want to hurt her. But, is she really happy in a loveless marriage? Either way, it hurts.
3 - Was the WTS really the only thing you had in common? If that was it, then it seems like a marriage of convenience.
Bottom line - you have to ask yourself, is dealing with the WTS crap worth staying married. For instance, in my case, it absolutely is. But, many times it is not. Losing friends and family sucks, (actually, there are a few family members I wouldn't mind shunning me LOL) but you can make new friends. Losing the love of your life over a silly religion, to me thats simply too much.
By the way, if we lived closer, I'd love to get in on that golf game! Hang in there bro.
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PO's wife told me Jehovah's holy spirit is with my hubby and I...
by cognac infirst of all, we haven't been to 1/2 the meetings... i guess she hasn't noticed.
anyways, some things have worked out very well for us (not spiritual or religious) and she said that jehovah's holy spirit was with us.
she asked if we had been praying to god for these specific things.
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Doubting Bro
Just had something similar happen where a person said that Jehovah was blessing them because they sold their house right before the housing market crashed. My response, God must hate me because I ended up buying a house at the top!
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A truly creepy 2007 public talk by Ciro Aulicino - You Will Be With Me in Paradise
by Tatiana ini searched for this here and didn't find any posts about it.
i just found this while searching for info as i was debating a jw on another site.
this is the most mind-blowing, spaced-out, insane bunch of mess i've ever heard.
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Doubting Bro
You have to wonder why the WTS even lets some of these guys speak. I would think even hard core JWs would think this is over the top. Also, wasn't Ciro the guy that gave that crazy talk after 9-11 that identified the radical Muslims as the "king of the north"? Ciro was editor of the Awake when the WTS became a registered NGO with the UN, right? Maybe the boys in Brooklyn let him speak to deflect that decision as one made by a renegade?